DHS Buying ‘Zombie Max’ Ammo Now

From Joe for America:

Homeland Security Drops all Pretense with “Zombie Max” Purchase

Obama right-hand gun at mikeWe cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.”  – Barack Obama; July 2, 2008

When Barack Obama made this proclamation, there was no Tea Party, no grass-roots  opposition to his forced passage of Obamacare, no usurping of the Separation of Powers, no Senator Ted Cruz, no government shut-down, no phony stimulus or millions of people waking up to find they in fact cannot keep their doctor or health plan if they like them.

Obama knew from the get-go that once Americans realized what “fundamental  transformation” actually meant, they wouldn’t stand for it. He began preparing for that ammo-Free-300x200time right away and is still doing so. Why does Homeland Security need over 2 billion bullets, most of them of the hollow point variety, if not to prepare for civil unrest?

The latest by DHS is a solicitation for over 141,00 rounds of sniper ammunition, posted on FedBizOpps of Hornady .308 Winchester 168gr A-MAX TAP ammunition, commonly called “Zombie Max” rounds. This ammo is not inexpensive stuff to be used for training or anything else. It’s for war.

Like you, I’ve read for years the postings of these type warnings of build-ups of armored vehicles, military weapons, assault machinery and enough ammunition purchased by Homeland Security to cause widespread shortages, nationwide. I resisted the temptation to believe that it is what it is. Not anymore.

The “Zombie Max” put me over the top: They’ve always claimed the bulk purchases were to save money, but this purchase is outright luxurious when it comes to ammo. They don’t need it and could get a different brand or lower grain for far less the cost. It’s not for training or anything else.

While legislators from California to Chicago to Washington are doing their best to disarm us, our government seems to be intent on picking up the slack for weapons and ammo manufacturers. The only question left is, ‘why’?

Maybe it’s the range, perhaps it’s the ballistic coefficient, or even the name – but the “Zombie Max” flipped me from healthy skepticism to WTF – better start hoarding food. zombie-300x200The fact is, I can’t find ammo for my simple pistol – not at Walmart, Big Five or the expensive alternative-in-a-pinch gun store.

Thank God we’re talking about the Feds who can’t even set up a website that works,  organize a two-car funeral, fog a mirror or deliver the mail profitably with no competitors. Bring it on you fools.


As the solicitation, dated Feb 7, 2014, states, that’s over 7,000 boxes of ammo. It also states that it’s for the ICE Agency, who we know have been instructed not to apprehend most of the illegals,  so they are certainly not going to shoot any of them. So what’s DHS need with yet more high powered ammo?


UPDATE:  As Hardnox pointed out, it looks like Joe got his wires crossed on the ammo picture above. Here are a couple more pics to clarify.

zombie multiple

Zombie variations

zombie 308

Zombie .308



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22 Responses to DHS Buying ‘Zombie Max’ Ammo Now

  1. Buck says:

    And history repeats itself.
    Rumblings coming out of Germany were ignored.
    They were merely the ramblings of an egotistic little Austrian house painter.

  2. Hardnox says:

    This is disturbing. The center picture is not accurate.

    This is what the round looks like: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsF5sonwxfAHMIwmrxinVf9cXTxNFhMK2T36nwGErXl2CwAQwA

    It has a ballistic tip meant to penetrate soft tissue, or heavy clothing, then virtually explode inside the target. The round is actually a hollow point and the ballistic tip actually aides in the expansion of the hollow point.

    Back before I lost all my guns and ammo in a boating accident… using 55 grain 5.56 ballistic tipped ammo such as these resulted in blowing the heads off of groundhogs. Imagine what a 168 grain .308 (7.62) would do.

    Any questions?

    This ammo is really lethal stuff and is in violation of any Geneva Conventions for its use on the battlefield. Why anyone would sanction the use of this ammo for DOMESTIC law enforcement should ring MAJOR alarm bells.

    • Kathy says:

      Thanks for that info, Hardnox. I’ve added a couple of pictures to show the difference.

      Whatever DHS’ reasoning is, I can’t see Americans shooting other Americans under any kind of orders, especially not with this stuff.

  3. Clyde says:

    Couple this with the FEMA camps, and other “purchases” can lead to ONE conclusion. It ain’t going to be pretty.

  4. Mrs AL says:

    I don’t know enough about the ammo to comment on it myself. However comma the author makes a good point in the beginning of the article with the Resident’s quote. Clyde is right, “It ain’t going to be pretty.”!

  5. BrianR says:

    Actually, 168gr Match ammo is used for several things. It’s terrific for anything requiring top accuracy, as that weight bullet in .308 is pretty standard in competition, as well as sniping, hunting, etc.

    Seven thousand boxes of ammo sounds like a lot, but it’s really not when you consider its use for training, competition, etc. Most of the armed government agencies have shooting teams that are in national competitions, such as at Camp Perry (I used to be a competitive shooter).

    Let’s say an agency has a shooting team. It will consist of pistol guys and rifle guys. Assume ten guys on the rifle team. Well, that’s only 70 boxes of ammo per guy. They’ll burn through that in a week or two. It’s only 100 – 200 rounds/day. That’s nothing.

    Additionally, for some years there’s been a trend in tactical sniping to switch to other calibers with better long-range performance, such a 7MM Win Mag and .338 Lapua.

    So really, I don’t see any deep. dark conspiracy in this at all.

    • Hardnox says:

      Sorry Pard, match grade ammo is full metal jacket not ballistic tip. Ballistic tipped ammo is for killing stuff not punching holes in paper targets. Both type rounds have the same ballistic characteristics. I have no issue with our LE guys training. They should do regularly. Competitive shooters will easily go through 1,000 to 2,000 rounds per week.

      The question is, why is DHS buying this type of ammo? And why DHS?

      • BrianR says:

        Nope, ‘Nox, not so. I’m afraid you don’t understand your ammo.

        There are many ammo types in which an HP round may have slightly different ballistic characteristics, and it’s absolutely common for competitive shooters to shoot HP ammo if it performs better. In fact, when I load my own 168gr match ammo, I use an HP bullet.

        In further fact, in looking through my on-hand reloading manuals I see that Speer (Reloading Manual #11) offers a 168gr Match bullet ONLY in HP, and Hornady (Third Edition) ALSO offers the 168gr ONLY in HP.

        I can’t even recall seeing a 168gr round with anything but a hollow point.

        Solid point rifle bullets in military calibers aren’t the norm; they’re actually the “exception” designed to conform to the Geneva Conventions On Warfare. In a rifle round, a solid-point FMJ bullet is actually pretty useless other than for target practice.

        • Hardnox says:

          We’ll need to agree to disagree on ballistics. The flight path of HP is different than solid point for .308/7.62. The HP causes a friction whereas the solid point does not. Ditto with many other types of rounds which is why Nosler, Hornady, etc. went to a ballistic tip for their HP ammo… hence the term.

          The questions remains: Why DHS?

          • BrianR says:

            Well, I believe I said that ballistics can and do vary. Further, you’re whipping a dead horse here.

            Here’s the only 168gr Match bullet Speer currently offers, from their website:

            No. Caliber Grains/Grams Description Count View Details
            2040 30 168 / 10.89 Match BTHP 100 Details >

            BTHP is Boat Tail Hollow Point

            If you go to Hornady’s site ( http://www.hornady.com/store/.308-30-CAL/?page=3 ) you’ll see that all their 168gr bullets are HP, too.

            In fact, I can’t find any manufacturer of 168gr Match bullets that makes an FMJ version, though I guess there may be somebody somewhere who does.

            You also don’t seem to know what a “ballistic tip” actually is. It’s a small plastic cone that’s inserted into the hollow-point cavity. It disintegrates on impact, and has zero effect on a bullet’s expansion performance. It’s purpose is to prevent the deformation of the lip of the hollow point when the bullet’s fed into the chamber, and in that way prevents a change in the bullet’s flight characteristics that could be caused by that deformation. That’s ALL it does.

            Bottom line: anyone who wants to wring max performance from a .308 — for whatever purpose, hunting, competition, whatever — is going to use a 168gr Match bullet, and the only ones out there are ALL HP.

      • BrianR says:

        BTW, for law enforcement purposes there’s no requirement that ammo be solid point, and in fact check out the handgun ammo of your local PD. Chances are it’s HP. Their sniper rounds are likely the same.

        The FMJ standard is a requirement in warfare ONLY due to the Geneva Convention.

    • Kathy says:

      So, Brian, on top of everything else, we pay for government employees to enter shooting competitions?

      • BrianR says:

        Actually, yes we do. A lot of them. Every armed service has a shooting team, as does the FBI, and I believe DHS. I know the DEA does, as does the Border Patrol (who are usually some of the top scorers, BTW). So do most major metro PDs.

        It’s a long and honored tradition in this country. In fact, when my own enlistment was up w-a-a-ay back in the Dark Ages, I was offered a slot on the Army team if I re-upped.

        Civilian life had more appeal.

        We also, through the DOD, pay for the Civilian Marksmanship Program, which makes it possible for civilians to acquire surplus weapons from the military arsenal at vastly reduced cost. The only requirement is that they participate in an NRA-sanctioned competition or two. Back about 25 years ago, I got a surplus M1 Garand for the then-going rate of $65, delivered to my door. I think it’s a bit more expensive now, but still WAY below gun shop prices.

        • Kathy says:

          That last paragraph is pretty funny when you think about it.

          The DOD requires they compete in an NRA sanctioned event, while the admin despises the NRA and wishes they’d go away.

          Honored tradition or not, I still have a problem with it being funded by taxpayers. Ammo and practice, sure, that makes you better at your job, but funding competitions is like me paying for your ticket to the Super Bowl. You want to go – you pay for it.

  6. Just the ‘ell out of curiosity,,, Whatever happened to the “FEMA Blue Shirts”, trained some time back for dark and nefarious purposes???

    Brian and Hardnox,,, Thank you for your discussion. VERY interesting and informative.

    • Kathy says:

      That’s an ongoing thing, Grouchy. I read the other day that some have completed their training for ‘disaster assistance’ or some such label.

    • BrianR says:

      Glad you enjoyed it. I’m a die hard gun guy from WAY back, and could go on for hours … obviously!


      • white531 says:

        Well Brian, since we have you on the phone here, and you seem to be an expert on weapons, I would ask you this question, which I believe is the underlying question of this entire conversation. What is the real reason for having a worthless government department like Homeland Security in the first place?

        Before you answer, do me the favor of reading this first:


        Forget that Homeland Security is almost larger than the Pentagon, at this point. Forget that they are buying weapons on the scale of a third world country about to start a war. Forget that they are buying ammunition at such a rate, as to deny ammunition to ordinary citizens. Forget all that. At least for the moment. Just tell me why they exist in the first place. I don’t know a hollow point cartridge from a pencil. But I do know this agency has grown out of control, in both spending and power, in just a few short years.

        If Obama does indeed put Martial law into place against American Citizens, Homeland Security will be the ones to enforce it.

        For what its worth, I don’t like the way you came in here with your supposed superior knowledge, and tried to beat up on Hardnox for the comment he posted.

        While you may be honestly defending Homeland Security for doing what they are doing, I don’t believe they even have a right to exist in the first place. The only reason they do exist, is because politicians ignored all the warnings that an attack against this nation was imminent. They had the information and they didn’t act on it. Because of that, thousands of innocent Americans lost their lives in the most horrific attack on this nation since Pearl Harbor.

        Our worthless politicians in Washington never seem to prevent the disaster in the first place, but after the disaster takes American lives for no reason, they are quick to spend even more of our tax dollars to cover their shame.

        So you think its okay to educate Hardnox and the rest of us about bullets. How about if the rest of us educate you about History and Freedom, and how much American blood has been spent not only in gaining the Freedom we have, but in trying to keep it.

        Even from our own government.

        You might gain from my comments, that I have a certain distaste for, “experts.” The reason for that, is that experts often fail to see the bigger picture. Generals don’t deal in minor details. Generals are always looking at the bigger picture. You may be an expert, with lots of useful information, but you are not a General.

  7. Buck says:

    The rounds pictured look like… Talons … I think they were called. They looked like a hollowpoint but with a small almost needle like inside. They were designed to penetrate velcro vests.
    But I’m not an expert it might have been something else…